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Gentrification Cancelled!! Emergency Callout in Defense of Grandview Park!!

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Gentrification Cancelled!! Emergency Callout in Defense of Grandview Park!!

Emergency Callout in Defense of Grandview Park!!

Saturday August 14th, 2010

What's Happening?

- Barbeque, Community Feast, Potluck @2:00pm Grandview Park

Please don't shy away, no one turned away for lack of contribution!

- Mass Assembly @3:30pm Grandview Park

In continuation of past General assemblies, please come and take part!

- Live Music @7:00pm Grandview Park

 

Here's the lowdown:

Grandview Park on Commercial Drive has just recently had a construction fence built around it. The Tennis Courts have also been torn up. Defend Grandview had already planned for barbeque to happen in Grandview this Saturday but now we find ourselves in a much more urgent situation and we feel the need to step up the momentum.

Commercial Drive is a rapidly gentrifying neighborhood. At Charles and Commercial lies Grandview Park. Over the last few years, there has been a controversial plan to redevelop the park which was initiated by "The Friends of Grandview". The "friends" of Grandview are a group of property owners living near the park who would like to live in a different neighborhood but refuse to move away. The plan is to strangle the life from Grandview park by eliminating loitering in the park, and the use of the park by "non-families". The new plan includes the removal of bushes and trees to discourage homeless people and youth from using the park as the trees and bushes provide shelter from various predators such as police and security.

In response a number of people have come together through general assemblies, and have tried to build momentum to oppose the redevelopment. After streamlining the process, for the use of developers, the park has now been closed, and as should be expected, no body but the middle class professionals are being listened to!

We urge everyone to come out and show solidarity, with the youth, the poor, and various others who use the park and wish to oppose the redevelopment!

And don't forget to have good time!

We hope with these events and others like these, we can build alternatives to this world where stolen native land can be continuously redeveloped and retaken for the interests of those who make a profit (whether culturally or economically)!!!!

We say,Defend Grandview!!!!

Gentrification Cancelled!!!

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Comments

Jesus panty sniffing

Jesus panty sniffing Christ.

How will removing asphalt, adding a new playground / water park /skate / multi-use court, new grass, and more seating eliminate loitering? I'd say that the new park design encourages more people to hang out. You must be able to explain your stance, and not just ramble on pointlessly with your paranoia.

You are not going to stop anything. All you manage to do here is build up massive acrimony in the community, and slow the project down. And since you seem incapable of figuring out what the fuck this means, I'll lay it out for you nice and simple...

Slowing down the park reno will mean that it will take far longer for all of the park's users to get back into it, in fact it could mean that we'll lose out on using it next summer. Way to fucking go. It will also increase the costs, money that the city could use elsewhere, such as improving bike lanes and whatnot. (something the current gov has shown considerable progress in implementing, so don't say they aren't trying)

Also, if you slow the project down, even if there are other delays that are the city's fault, they can just blame you guys. So yeah, you're really serving the public interest aren't you?

As for your other concerns... this is a public park. Nobody can hold any reasonable expectation of privacy. Look, if you wanted rape nooks, and other hidey holes, you should have come to the public meetings to demand them. Nobody fucking cares if a bunch of lay-abouts and homeless people like to hang out in the park enjoying a few beers/splifs. If you spent any time in the park right now you'd see that most of them all just hang out in the very public areas, not in the bushes. What most people in this neighbourhood don't want is people getting shitfaced and then starting fights, or breaking bottles, or other such idiocy, something that a more open design would discourage. This is not a crazy expectation in a small public park that serves a city with a population density of over 4,000 people per square KM.

Go down to Oppenheimer Park. Talk to the locals. (Those would be all the people who use to use that park who have returned, just like they will with Grandview) See what they think. Or hey... try debating in this forum instead of just dropping your little manifestos and running for cover.

Interesting

Oppenheimer? You mean the park where they cleared everyone out for 6 months or so? Do you not remember that folks were very angry about that and were displaced???

Anyways I think lots of folks on the drive support those organizing against the "redevelopment" of grandview park. "John" has the right to his opinion and all but I wouldn't assume his voice represents a majority of residents.

Dawn,   Yes, Oppenheimer. The

Dawn,

 

Yes, Oppenheimer. The park that now has an awesome new user facility and washrooms. The park that now has children playing in it. The park that all people now feel safer to use. I dare you to swing by and speak to the people there. I did. I didn't encounter one who said they didn't like the changes. I even prompted them to bitch about the length of the closure, and nobody would... they saw it as a necessity. One dude actually came up and interrupted me when I was talking to somebody else, and totally went off as to how awesome he thought it was. I have no doubt there would be a few who don't like the changes, but I bet they would be in the very small minority.

What you fail to understand is that a closure like this inconveniences everyone.  Not just the marginalized. You know who else can't use the park when it's closed? Bill Gates. It doesn't matter how rich you are.

My family uses Grandview upwards of 40 hours per week, because we use our backyard for shared gardens, so our kids have no place to play at home. This will be a huge pain in the ass, but in the end, it'll be worth it, and I think you are completely out to lunch if you think the vast majority of locals think the park should be left in the state it's in. There are loads of other options within a few hundred metres for people to use in the meantime. I think we'll all live having to make the epic trek to Victoria.

So do you support leaving all the un-used asphalt in the park? Do you like the sketchy washrooms? Do you reject the notion that skaters should have a place to skate? Do you think the kids should continue to play on a playground constructed from pressure treated lumber, a known carcinogen? Do you think all the bald patches of grass are conducive to sitting? Do you like the lack of seating?

Come on. Try for 2 seconds to take the long view here. Yes, people will be inconvenienced, but that's what sometimes has to happen in order to fix things up to better serve this community for the next 50+ years. It's shouldn't really be all that hard to understand.

Safe for who?

That's my question...

I don't think the park is a

I don't think the park is a terribly unsafe place these days. I think it's run down,  and I think it's a haphazard mix of facilities that have been added over the years that don't make a good use of a small space. And primarily for these reasons, it needs the reno.

That said, there are spots in the park that are not exactly safe. People like to hang out behind the washrooms, and whenever trouble starts, it's almost always back there. As a result, this has made that part of the park scary for lots of people in the neighbourhood. I've talked to a number of seniors who avoid it like the plague.

Also, the park has gone through some very rough patches where there has been considerably more violence. A few  years back when the cops cracked down on drug sales in the DTES, it moved to Commercial. I couldn't walk down the street without being asked if I wanted rock, and the park was the epicenter.

A more open design makes the park safer for everyone, unless of course you're shooting up, or trying to do something that you don't want anybody to see, and hey... it's a public park, so if you want privacy, go someplace else.

Again... most people I've talked to in the park, (those would be the nasty yuppies who the person in the photo suggests would be better off dead), don't really give a shit if people enjoy a joint or a beer. They just don't want to see people lose their shit. I almost never see cops in the park unless they're responding to something, and sorry if you don't like it, but other park users shouldn't have to tell people getting into violent confrontations to calm down. And having done it before myself, going up and telling somebody to take their fight someplace else when you have you kids with you isn't exactly a great position to be in.

Just curious... but so many people call themselves "journalists" these days. I'm wondering if any of you have ever bothered to try to speak with Stephanie Maingot, she would be the woman behind Friends of Grandview. I've actually talked to her and asked her to clarify some of the things she said in that presentation. She doesn't want to see the homeless pushed out of the park. She does want to see people who treat the park like their private property who feel okay intimidating people pushed out, and she has some interesting personal experiences to relate. Of course, if you tried to understand her position, it would be hard to demonize her, so I can see why you wouldn't want to try.

uh yea

The piece above is a blog post, which, as noted above reflects the opinion of the person posting it. If you don't like what you see here, I'm sure you'll find many highly paid "journalists" who take your position (and the position of the police, the developers, etc). That's not what the VMC is about.

It's called "debate". This is

It's called "debate". This is a process by which people try to find consensus on complex issues without first wrecking each other's shit, and then moving on to killing each other. Ideally, humans will try to do more of this in the future.

My opinions have been backed up with facts n' stuff... do far you've done nothing to answer any of the questions I've asked you.

see my reply below

Unlike some, I do not have time to write long comments responding to other people's comments.

Neither do I. I'm doing this,

Neither do I. I'm doing this, because a bunch of goofs are bent on dividing our community, and now delaying the project in the park, which I'd really like to get back into as soon as possible. Somebody has to try and get you guys to see reason, as pointless as that might be. You think I'd rather be doing this? I would much rather be taking bong hits and reading my book in peace.

you're kidding, right?

The park is going to go back to shit anyway once construction is done.  I can picture it now, "defenders" knocking down freshly planted trees, stomping gardens.  If I recall correctly, the park was TRASHED a month or two ago at one of these assemblies.  Way to go guys, you really know how to get your message across. Which was..... 

Refresh my memory, why are you guys upset....really.  They've closed it down for part of the year (I landscape, so the time frame makes complete sense), you have to take your party somewhere else for the time being, awww that sucks.  Ok, so they're reasons were offensive to you?  I'm sorry.  Are you all that sensitive that it hurt when some members said they no longer felt comfortable bringing their kids to the community PLAYGROUND because of regulars who want the freedom to openly drink, smoke pot or sell crack?

What is your message here, cause your actions and reasoning are lacking thought.  Not that it matters to you, but you're embarrassing yourselves.  No wonder no one's listening!  Fight for something that makes sense guys.

From what I've seen there's a majority who share the same view as John.  You're the minority. See, apparently you don't have to be a middle class professional to realize you're a pain in the ass.

stats

I'd like to see some statistics on who is the "majority" and who is the "minority" before you attempt to speak on behalf of either.

Sorry for saying "completely

Sorry for saying "completely out to lunch". I'm just frustrated by the fact that there is so much misplaced anger and action over something like a park reno.

Dawn, If the city is to be

Dawn,

If the city is to be believed at all, the vast majority (something like 90%) of the people who participated in their consultation process voted for one of the 3 proposed designs with 10% rejecting. That info live somewhere on the internet, feel free to hunt for it yourself.

I asked you a number of questions. Here they are again:

So do you support leaving all the un-used asphalt in the park? Do you like the sketchy washrooms? Do you reject the notion that skaters should have a place to skate? Do you think the kids should continue to play on a playground constructed from pressure treated lumber, a known carcinogen? Do you think all the bald patches of grass are conducive to sitting? Do you like the lack of seating?

And one more... how will the park reno further the marginalization of East Van's poor? Simply stating that the reno kicks them out doesn't cut it, because it kicks everybody out, and that's the sort of thing that happens when you renovate something. It's standard practice, not a conspiracy.

John

FYI I'm not working on this story, and I think your questions may be addressed by other commenters below.

Park Closures

As someone who is living in the Downtown Eastside, i don't who the f#$k John or Ash or whoever talked to, but most people were EXTREMELY pissed that Oppenheimer Park was closed for over a year.  Some 30-40 people even established a protest tent camp there to highlight the community opposition to the park closure, with millions spent on gentrifying the park while people were sleeping in the f#$kin streets.

So Oppenheimer is now re-opened with some sterile, institutional 'community' space and a new plastic playground. Is that some kind of 'community' victory?

If a community doesn't have control or real input over their physical territory, then it's nothing but dictatorship .  In the late 1980's, Tomkin's Square Park in New York was the site of a community revolt against gentrification.  Along with massive policing operations, the city closed the park for well over a a year for 're-development'. 

Gentrification is not just a big word--it describes a process of displacement, dislocation, homelessness, in the interests of business and the middle-class yuppies who gain not only a neighborhood that's 'safe' for them, but also greater property value, increased services, etc., all at the expense of the poor and oppressed.

Now figure out what side of the f#$ken fence you're on.  We know where the pigs are at and why they have mobilized a relatively strong security presence around the park in the last couple of months.  Simply 'paranoia"?  You're an idiot.

Zig Zag, I'm not saying

Zig Zag,

I'm not saying people weren't annoyed. I'm saying that the people I talked to after the fact felt it was worth it.

You think most people in the DTES would prefer the old washrooms over the new? And the kids park... again, it actually has kids in it, something the old one didn't. You may not like kids, but the woman who runs the facility told me the new park actually serves over 200 kids in that neighbourhood. Most people think providing inner city children with a safe place to play is a good thing, so yeah, I would call it a community victory.

Fixing up a park isn't about "gentrification". It's about urban renewal. Everybody gets to enjoy that park, and any increase in property values will be so negligable as to make no difference. You could pave Grandview and people would still pay $1 million for a stupid house.

Parks Board should reconsider

Was there a consultation process to involve interested parties?  Well technically yes, but far more people that are also interested in their neighborhood were not involved.  Whose fault is that?  Most would say obviously those who chose not to get involved but it's not that simple.  Let's face facts, the Parks Board supports business.  Business is all about money.  If you represent money (property or business owner), you are more likely to be heard.  In fact the Parks Board listened to local property owners and based on that, not the "consultation process" 3 years later, decided to redevelop.  Along the way, they intentionally allowed Grandview park to deteriorate as they confessed at a board meeting recently.  Many people were not aware of the nature of the plans because of meagre and misleading announcements.  Some who had heard were reluctant to voice their opposition because they expected not to be seriously listened to, also admitted at the same board meeting.  The lack of involvement becomes understandable and one has to wonder if perhaps it as least partly the fault of the structure of our society.

In my opinion the Oppenheimer reno is a travesty.  The "awesome new user facility and washrooms"  are not open every day.  Nobody thinks "the park should be left in the state it's in", it's a question of regular maintenance which the Parks Board chose to abandon and gradual upgrade rather than complete alteration of the environment.  It's a shame what happened at an assembly a few months ago and also the confrontation yesterday with the fencing issue but the shame should be shouldered by those who cause the problem, the Parks Board and the police who are called to back them up whenever their is dissent, not the people pushed into action in order to be heard.  And to say the park was "trashed" is ridiculous, not nearly the problems caused by the annual Celebration of Light or have you seen Granville Street every Friday and Saturday night?

It's going to be an interesting few months, not quite like the Olympics or G20, but where's there anger there's confrontation and I've seen plenty of angry Grandview residents, not just the Defend Grandview crowd.

Actually there were signs up

Actually there were signs up in the park long before the consultation started. If you used the park regularly, it's pretty hard to miss them. I guess they could have sent personal invitations to everyone in the neighbourhood, but that gets expensive.

Anybody who cared to pay even remote attention could have participated. I work full time, have two kids, and simply couldn't make any of the meetings. Both my wife and I did however take time to email the architect with our opinions, and voted on a plan.

If people didn't bother to participate because the didn't think anybody would listen, and then actually have the gall to complain when they don't get their way (this would be the way they never bothered to communicate), then they're pretty much outta luck, and for good reason. Take for example the bike polo people who petitioned the city to build a multi-use court instead of simply ripping out the tennis courts as they'd originially intended. They spoke. The city listened. The system, flawed as it might be, sometimes works!

You say that the Parks Board supports business without providing any support for your opinion. I don't actually know that much about the Parks Board, but I do know a bit about commissioners Sarah Blyth and Constance Barnes, and if you think either of these people support business over people, then you have no idea as to what you are talking about. Go read a little bit about what they've done in the community.

As for Oppenheimer, imagine we could conduct a little experiment, wherein we place the old Oppenheimer washroom facility (cleaned as best as possible) next to the new one, and allow the entire city of Vancouver to vote on which they'd rather sit their ass down in. I would be willing to bet you my life that 99% would choose the new one. As for the facilities hours... that has nothing to do with the actual building, but policy, and something easily changed if there is an outcry. Plus, this isn't just a washroom, it's a mini-community centre. Kind of a big plus.

Re the meeting... I was there too. I know everybody wants to simply imagine some nefarious plot to let the park deteriorate just so they could dig it up, but my guess is that they didn't bother to invest a substantial chuck to fix the park up, because they knew that the park needed a total upgrade, and it would have been unwise to spend the money on something they were going to rip up.

The whole point of this reno isn't just about random renovation. The density of this neighbourhood is remarkably heavy, and the park is quite small. That so much of it is covered in asphalt doesn't make sense. Then there is the drainage, which they have tried to fix 3 times over the past 20 years. And the toxic pt-playground. And the lack of seating. And the shitty bathrooms. There is no plot... Vancouver has been on a park renovating kick for the past few years, and it's clear that these renos are intended to last a long, long time.

As for blaming the parks board for a few people acting like assholes, come on. People are responsible for themselves and their actions. To get so upset over the city investing in our neighbourhoods shared areas is goofy. Especially since nobody has yet been able to demonstrate how their main thesis, namely the class cleansing of the poor, will actually result from the reno.

And you know what... I was one of the people who cleaned the fucking park after the big party. Yes, you are correct. The stupid fireworks cause more problems, but they never claimed that they are out to protect anything. They're out to blow shit up. The so-callled Defenders of Grandview made a mess in the place they claim to want to protect. This is such a logic-defying deed that I'm actually shocked none of you guys can figure it out.

Yup. Gonna be an interesting few months. Anger always leads people to make good decision. I can see getting angry about a lot of things, but getting angry about the outcome of a process you didn't participate in, which is going to give you more green space, a nicer place to poop, a new playground/water/skate park for the kids,  and loads of seating, is just plain goofy.

The Park Board, a democratically elected body, is not going to cave to a handful of people who think wrecking shit is the way to do things. No, they'll spend stupid amounts of resources to get the job done inspite of it. What this will cause is a substantial increase in the hit the public will take paying for the thing, and possibly a delay in completion, meaning we don't get back in the park for even longer. Yeah, that'll serve the interests of the community.

Phew. You guys are exhausting.

Repeated ignorance

First of all, there has been so much information made available to anyone, at peoples convenience, about the reasons people in the grandview-woodlands community have huge problems with the re-development of grandview park. I suggest you take the time to learn about the issues with and struggles around the park before you take the time to make rash comments or allegations based on little to no true information. There is complete lack of community imput, consent or power over anything to do with the so called "public parks", and especially with sensitive issues surrounding complete renovations and long-term closures that are unecessary and were planned years in advance, with basically a sabotage plan of dwindling park maintenance to hold support for a positive change in the park when all that is needed is basic maintenance and more freedom for people to organize and host fun events for the whole community to come out and enjoy.

There is major greed and corruption amongst the Vancouver Parks Board and the backroom deals being made with shifty, bad repped construction comapanies that leads people to feel cheated and scammed and displaced, gentrified, victimizrd and helpless, because the parksboard is seling out our freedom to use so called public space, even though we have absolutely no rights in parks owned and operated by the parksboard.

As we saw during a community art project that brought many different people from the community out to paint the bathrooms with murals depicting the culture and diversity of people in the park. Even though there was only two weeks to go before the planned tear-down of the building, police showed up and flexed their muscles and the weight of the parksboard and forcefully stopped the murals from being started or finished halfway through the project. Even though they were set to come down in weeks, the police or parksboard couldnt stand to let un-authorized volunteers, with all their own donated supplies and maintenance materiels, fix up something the parksboard had been lacking doing. People were even harrassed while cleaning the bathrooms, because we all know the disgusting condition the parksboard leaves them in, purposefully weve now come to find out.

The Parks Board openly admitted at a public meeting that a few years ago they had decided to stop maintaining Grandview park, so that when the time came for a contract with a well known and shifty contracting company, people would be tired of the park and its problems and lacking features and agree with a complete, and unecessary renovation. The shitty design plan features a much smaller new child playground made of plastic and metal, that will be mostly in direct sunlight(plastic heats up), as opposed to the shaded oasis the previous one had. The plan also says ages 6-12. The previous playground had features for all ages of children, even adolescent youth. All that was needed was minor sanding of the wood, a new board or two, and perhaps a new paint job on the equiptment that had paint chipping or fading. There is no stage on the new plans, and the multi-use court wil be much less convenient and useful than the one previously enjoyed. the layout features less trees and plants, because the police and parksboard fear any area not openly observed. People naturally need and enjoy minor or partial privacy, not constant open, surveilled spaces. 

Also just talking with people who have a daily relationship with the park, and its issues, is a real eye-opener. Its not like this is the only struggle like it, there are so many fucking examples all over that are so similar and related to each other. Its a bigger picture than people leaving narrowminded comments seem to understand, Looking at it as an isolated and biased struggle- issue is bullshit and should be disregarded. Try working with the community instead of against it.

Ah the mural you "painted".

Ah the mural you "painted". The one wherin you painted over the mural painted by over 60 other people in the community, and then called the artist who got angry at you "an old hag". Right. I'd forgotten about that. Nothing like a little mysoginy and agism!

I'm not going to bother answering your claim that the parks board nefariously let the park decay, because I've answered that above. Please read it.

The playground will feature equipment being used in new parks all over Vancouver. Kids love this shit. It's Dr. Seusian and highly challenging. I've visited many of these parks, and the kids love it. Sorry, but you're projecting your feelings on what works for kids. AND the current wood is made of preassure treated lumber, a known carcinogen. It should be scrapped. Or maybe you don't believe that this stuff is harmful? You're not one of those people who thinks climate change is a hoax too, are you?

And yes there is a fucking stage. Go look at the plans posted right on the park fence. It's huge.

And how will the multi-use court be less convient? Explain. Right now the current courts are barely used. The bike polo people used it maybe a few times per week, and they are thrilled with the design they helped create.

The more open park isn't about surveillance, so much as it's about not having places where people can shoot up, or hide. Sorry if you don't like this, but again, you can have no reasonable expectation of privacy in a small public park.

And you guys are trying to turn a fucking park reno into a class war, which it's not. It's a park reno. Relax. In a few months the park will re-open (unless you fuck it up), and everybody will come back. You guys will forget all about this, and move on to wasting your time on some other pointless cause rather than fighting the real problems in this city.

Worried about gentrification... work on pushing for more affordable housing. Again... the reno is under way. All you can do now is increase the cost and duration. Please don't. It hurts us all.

Response to "A"

 

 

There is complete lack of community imput, consent or power over anything to do with the so called "public parks", and especially with sensitive issues surrounding complete renovations and long-term closures that are unecessary and were planned years in advance, with basically a sabotage plan of dwindling park maintenance to hold support for a positive change in the park when all that is needed is basic maintenance and more freedom for people to organize and host fun events for the whole community to come out and enjoy.

Really? From what I could see there was extensive community input into the redevelopment of Grandview Park. There were signs up in the park long before the consultation started. If you used the park regularly, it was pretty hard to miss them. Even with a busy schedule, there was ample opportunity for any member of the community to provide input and ideas for its renovation. Also, in the interest of the community, the Parks Board intelligently allocated maintenance funds 1 year prior, towards the renovation funds. Can this not be in the best interest of our community to provide a cost-effective renovation?

 

There is major greed and corruption amongst the Vancouver Parks Board and the backroom deals being made with shifty, bad repped construction comapanies that leads people to feel cheated and scammed and displaced, gentrified, victimizrd and helpless, because the parksboard is seling out our freedom to use so called public space, even though we have absolutely no rights in parks owned and operated by the parksboard.

 

Perhaps you know some facts that others don’t (and please share if you do!), but the process of the renovation bids were made as public and transparent as possible. If you were interested in that process you could have easily followed it. How are they ‘selling out our freedom to use public space’? The parks board is renovating the park (with extensive input from the public; see above) for use by the public!…sheeesh!

 

As we saw during a community art project that brought many different people from the community out to paint the bathrooms with murals depicting the culture and diversity of people in the park. Even though there was only two weeks to go before the planned tear-down of the building, police showed up and flexed their muscles and the weight of the parksboard and forcefully stopped the murals from being started or finished halfway through the project. Even though they were set to come down in weeks, the police or parksboard couldnt stand to let un-authorized volunteers, with all their own donated supplies and maintenance materiels, fix up something the parksboard had been lacking doing. People were even harrassed while cleaning the bathrooms, because we all know the disgusting condition the parksboard leaves them in, purposefully weve now come to find out.

 

Is this the same community art project that left graffiti and broken fences and trashed plant beds, and various items burnt and left smoldering in the middle of commercial drive? I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I pretty confident that most of the community doesn’t appreciate profanity-riddled graffiti and fire-hazards in their public space. While it may not have been your intention to have such an out of control protest, it certainly doesn’t look highly of you and the sincerity of your concerns over the health of our community and its beloved Grandview Park.

 

The shitty design plan features a much smaller new child playground made of plastic and metal, that will be mostly in direct sunlight(plastic heats up), as opposed to the shaded oasis the previous one had. The plan also says ages 6-12. The previous playground had features for all ages of children, even adolescent youth. All that was needed was minor sanding of the wood, a new board or two, and perhaps a new paint job on the equiptment that had paint chipping or fading. There is no stage on the new plans, and the multi-use court wil be much less convenient and useful than the one previously enjoyed. the layout features less trees and plants, because the police and parksboard fear any area not openly observed. People naturally need and enjoy minor or partial privacy, not constant open, surveilled spaces. 

 

Fair enough. You had ample opportunity to discuss your thoughts and ideas throughout the public input process. But….you didn’t. Sorry for that but it’s too late, you missed your chances. I would also like to add that, while you may feel that the input process came primarily from business owners and the ‘bourgeois’ of East Van (chuckle, chuckle…this is East Van not the British Properties!), there was in fact much input from the public with complete disregard of their address, occupation and employment status, wealth, property ownership, etc. Anyone with ideas could put them forth and they were listened to. If those ideas were shared by others then they were followed-up on and implemented in the renovation designs. (For example, the bike polo community who use the park regularly, voiced their opinions and were heard…they got what they wanted. Again, you could have done the same but didn’t.) These designs were developed by an architect who thankfully provided a few different options for us to decide upon. The public then democratically voted for the design they like best. One design in particular received the majority of the votes, which is the design that is currently about to be implemented in the renovation. How about that for true democracy in action?

 

Also just talking with people who have a daily relationship with the park, and its issues, is a real eye-opener. Its not like this is the only struggle like it, there are so many fucking examples all over that are so similar and related to each other. Its a bigger picture than people leaving narrowminded comments seem to understand, Looking at it as an isolated and biased struggle- issue is bullshit and should be disregarded. Try working with the community instead of against it.

 

Agreed, there is much injustice in the world and so many reasons to advocate for change. While some of these ‘struggles’ at times seem like a David versus Goliath battle, it is important for communities to unite, work together and achieve common goals. However, I think you may have missed the ‘bigger picture’. The Grandview Park renovation is not a battle worthy of your efforts. Your opposition to its renovation only serves to cost the community more and inevitably will divide the community. Build your allies so that when you need to fight for a real change, something of greater importance, you will have the support of the community behind you.

barely worth my time

john, you arrogant f%&*!

you wrote quite a bunch of crap: "I'm not going to bother answering your claim that the parks board nefariously let the park decay, because I've answered that above. Please read it."  ...but your guess is... you idiot! for some reason you think quite a lot of your guesses.

those park board nazis, that you are trying to defend, made it pretty easy, even for dipp shits like you, to understand that they are having their plans, and weren't planning on giving any shit about what "the people" want. public consultation, my ass... it went as far as "6 spray nozzels are not enough, but 7 is ok."

none of the interesting questions were ever answered, like why using 1.5 million dollars of public funds, to increase the property values for "the owners" if it can be done for a fraction of it and we could use a big part of the money to, lets say, feed the poor? instead, free food and what not is going to be illegal, and like in oppenheimer, none of the ones that need access to the facilities are ever gonna get a key.

I'm sure you can entertain us with some better guesses .

"Just curious... but so many people call themselves "journalists" these days. I'm wondering if any of you have ever bothered to try to speak with Stephanie Maingot, she would be the woman behind Friends of Grandview."

because you heard her trying to wiggle out of the responsibility for the life of homeless in the park ...(?) where does that leave us? not gentrified, because she didn't mean to....? i'm sure she is going to say "i'm sorry" to make things all good in the end.

Seeing how you pull numbers out of your ass in your infinite wisdom, maybe you want to look into becoming a journalist?

"And you guys are trying to turn a fucking park reno into a class war, which it's not. It's a park reno. Relax. In a few months the park will re-open (unless you fuck it up), and everybody will come back.'

And you fucking guy, don't try to turn class war into just a park reno. once it's your time to get gentrified out of the aera, nobody is going to be left to stand in your support then.

 

and yeah, i think you are brainwashed or paid to brainwash...

You wrote: "those park board

You wrote:

"those park board nazis, that you are trying to defend, made it pretty easy, even for dipp shits like you, to understand that they are having their plans, and weren't planning on giving any shit about what "the people" want. public consultation, my ass... it went as far as "6 spray nozzels are not enough, but 7 is ok."

Nazis? Dude... I'm not sure if you know what a nazi is, but generally they didn't go around creating more greenspace and water parks. This elected body looked at a decrepit, poorly designed park, and tried to involve the public. Did you bother to go to even one of the consultation meetings? Did you?

You wrote:

"none of the interesting questions were ever answered, like why using 1.5 million dollars of public funds, to increase the property values for "the owners" if it can be done for a fraction of it and we could use a big part of the money to, lets say, feed the poor? instead, free food and what not is going to be illegal, and like in oppenheimer, none of the ones that need access to the facilities are ever gonna get a key."

Hey, feeding the homeless is great. I fully endorse, but guess what? There are hundreds of thousands of other people living in this city, many of them kids. They deserve a place to play that isn't build of toxic wood products. So yeah... fixing up the park is a worthwhile cause. And the parks board... it's not their job to feed the poor. And as for your bit about people being illeagal... what are you talking about? Explain.

You wrote:

"because you heard her (Stephanie) trying to wiggle out of the responsibility for the life of homeless in the park ...(?) where does that leave us? not gentrified, because she didn't mean to....? i'm sure she is going to say "i'm sorry" to make things all good in the end.

Yes. Not gentrified. Because this isn't about gentrification. It's about fixing up a broken down park. Still, instead of demonizing her, talk to her. But, you won't, because you are afraid that if suddenly one of your boogiemen turns out to be a basically decent human being, you'll be left looking like and ass. (Well, more of an ass, anyway)

You wrote:

"And you fucking guy, don't try to turn class war into just a park reno. once it's your time to get gentrified out of the aera, nobody is going to be left to stand in your support then."

I think I'll live.
 
You wrote:

"and yeah, i think you are brainwashed or paid to brainwash.."

I've asked you guys to explain countless times before how fixing up a park is gentrification and you can't. Not one solid argument. You can't explain how everybody who has always used the park won't just come pouring back in, because they will. Everything you believe is hokum, and you believe it, because you can't think critically. Like your foes on the far right, you just parrot everything you hear from your little manifesto writers.

And re being paid to brainwash.... hahahahahahha! This is called paranoia. No, I'm just a guy who lives near the park, uses it almost every day, and just wants everybody to get along.

Your group has done nothing but divide our community. You've made the homeless feel like people are out to get them, which they're not. And you've demonized anyone who thinks the reno is a good idea as "yuppies".

The park reno is well under way. The only think you can do now is slow it down and increase the cost. Please don't. Instead, if you're worried about inclussivity, come up with a plan to make the park more inclussive. I'm not going to hold out any hope for your doing this, because you really don't get it.

The sad thing is that the

The sad thing is that the people calling for a 'class war' are middle-class kids dressed in 'poorface'.

dr.j: we missed the bigger picture ???????

"Agreed, there is much injustice in the world and so many reasons to advocate for change. While some of these ‘struggles’ at times seem like a David versus Goliath battle, it is important for communities to unite, work together and achieve common goals. However, I think you may have missed the ‘bigger picture’. The Grandview Park renovation is not a battle worthy of your efforts. Your opposition to its renovation only serves to cost the community more and inevitably will divide the community. Build your allies so that when you need to fight for a real change, something of greater importance, you will have the support of the community behind you."

Hmm.

Myth no.1. David did not beat Goliath.

Myth No.2: Consensus among disparate community groups is possible. I see.

Myth No. 3: We can build our allies in a community which is now clearly divided into a number of irrevocably, both socio-economically and politically,opposed community factions. Anarchists don`t speak to sucky doodling state-licking sheep.

Myth No.4 The city hall Parks Board meetings were democratic since defendgrandview.wordpress,com and the poor were fairly represented in the decision making process.

Biggest Myth of all:

       That this local issue about redevelopment, a euphemism for gentrification or displacement of the lowest classes, does not reflect what is going on around the world: ie. the bigger picture of recession driven social control aimed at dominating the largest socio-economic class, the average worker and surplus labour, in order to fulfill the historically driven mandate for a `new world order`.

If the capitalists and the State versus Native Land is not the main issue, what is more important:

Bathrooms ? Types of wood for swing benches ?

Dream on Dr.j

 

 

Myth no.1. David did not beat

Myth no.1. David did not beat Goliath.

  • Actually, David did beat Goliath. Go find a Bible. (And no, I"m not a bible thumper, I just know my myths.) The author of this post was simply stating that this was not a case of David (the little guy) vs Goliath (gov & developers).

Myth No.2: Consensus among disparate community groups is possible. I see.

  • It is. See, we have this thing called democracy, which sucks, but it's better than all the other options people have tried so far. Please, go start a community, come up with a system you can point to that works, and come back with a plan. Because for now, all you've got is bullshit manifestos, that NOBODY is going to be willing to implement.

Myth No. 3: We can build our allies in a community which is now clearly divided into a number of irrevocably, both socio-economically and politically,opposed community factions. Anarchists don`t speak to sucky doodling state-licking sheep.

  • YOu might not want to speak to such "sucky doodling state-licking sheep", but you're going to have to. If you don't get enough of us on board, how exactly do you plan to move ahead? (I guess you'll have to lock us all up in your new little world order)

Myth No.4 The city hall Parks Board meetings were democratic since defendgrandview.wordpress,com and the poor were fairly represented in the decision making process.

  • Anybody who cared to show up had the opportunity to be heard. Nobody was checking backgrounds. Did you bother to show up to any of the meetings?

Biggest Myth of all:

That this local issue about redevelopment, a euphemism for gentrification or displacement of the lowest classes, does not reflect what is going on around the world: ie. the bigger picture of recession driven social control aimed at dominating the largest socio-economic class, the average worker and surplus labour, in order to fulfill the historically driven mandate for a `new world order`. If the capitalists and the State versus Native Land is not the main issue, what is more important: Bathrooms ? Types of wood for swing benches ?

  • Ever hear the saying that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar? This is probably one of those cases. If you can actually demonstrate how the new park will push anyone out, be my guest. I agree that there are loads of issues around the poor getting poorer, but in this case, we see local government spending money that directly benefits an entire community of park users. Less asphalt in the park is a good thing. Nicer washrooms are a good thing. A new water park that won't break out kids fucking teeth is a good thing. More grass, and a central stage is a good thing. More seating is a good thing. All of this benefits everyone who uses the park regardless of their socio-economic position.
  • Who are you to speak for Aboriginals. Have any of the local Aboriginal governments stepped up to oppose the reno? Are you Aboriginal?

So again I ask. what do you hope to achieve by stopping the reno at this point? To have the city return a demolished park to us? What would your plan be from this point on? Please fill us in.

I take it all back!

I take it all back! Apparently this is what Vancouver plans to install in the park!!!!

http://vimeo.com/1665301

Okay, that wasn't helpful, I admit. But you guys are acting like this is the sort of thing that is part of the city's plan.

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