Jesus panty sniffing Christ.

How will removing asphalt, adding a new playground / water park /skate / multi-use court, new grass, and more seating eliminate loitering? I'd say that the new park design encourages more people to hang out. You must be able to explain your stance, and not just ramble on pointlessly with your paranoia.

You are not going to stop anything. All you manage to do here is build up massive acrimony in the community, and slow the project down. And since you seem incapable of figuring out what the fuck this means, I'll lay it out for you nice and simple...

Slowing down the park reno will mean that it will take far longer for all of the park's users to get back into it, in fact it could mean that we'll lose out on using it next summer. Way to fucking go. It will also increase the costs, money that the city could use elsewhere, such as improving bike lanes and whatnot. (something the current gov has shown considerable progress in implementing, so don't say they aren't trying)

Also, if you slow the project down, even if there are other delays that are the city's fault, they can just blame you guys. So yeah, you're really serving the public interest aren't you?

As for your other concerns... this is a public park. Nobody can hold any reasonable expectation of privacy. Look, if you wanted rape nooks, and other hidey holes, you should have come to the public meetings to demand them. Nobody fucking cares if a bunch of lay-abouts and homeless people like to hang out in the park enjoying a few beers/splifs. If you spent any time in the park right now you'd see that most of them all just hang out in the very public areas, not in the bushes. What most people in this neighbourhood don't want is people getting shitfaced and then starting fights, or breaking bottles, or other such idiocy, something that a more open design would discourage. This is not a crazy expectation in a small public park that serves a city with a population density of over 4,000 people per square KM.

Go down to Oppenheimer Park. Talk to the locals. (Those would be all the people who use to use that park who have returned, just like they will with Grandview) See what they think. Or hey... try debating in this forum instead of just dropping your little manifestos and running for cover.

Dawn,

Yes, Oppenheimer. The park that now has an awesome new user facility and washrooms. The park that now has children playing in it. The park that all people now feel safer to use. I dare you to swing by and speak to the people there. I did. I didn't encounter one who said they didn't like the changes. I even prompted them to bitch about the length of the closure, and nobody would... they saw it as a necessity. One dude actually came up and interrupted me when I was talking to somebody else, and totally went off as to how awesome he thought it was. I have no doubt there would be a few who don't like the changes, but I bet they would be in the very small minority.

What you fail to understand is that a closure like this inconveniences everyone.  Not just the marginalized. You know who else can't use the park when it's closed? Bill Gates. It doesn't matter how rich you are.

My family uses Grandview upwards of 40 hours per week, because we use our backyard for shared gardens, so our kids have no place to play at home. This will be a huge pain in the ass, but in the end, it'll be worth it, and I think you are completely out to lunch if you think the vast majority of locals think the park should be left in the state it's in. There are loads of other options within a few hundred metres for people to use in the meantime. I think we'll all live having to make the epic trek to Victoria.

So do you support leaving all the un-used asphalt in the park? Do you like the sketchy washrooms? Do you reject the notion that skaters should have a place to skate? Do you think the kids should continue to play on a playground constructed from pressure treated lumber, a known carcinogen? Do you think all the bald patches of grass are conducive to sitting? Do you like the lack of seating?

Come on. Try for 2 seconds to take the long view here. Yes, people will be inconvenienced, but that's what sometimes has to happen in order to fix things up to better serve this community for the next 50+ years. It's shouldn't really be all that hard to understand.

Dawn,

If the city is to be believed at all, the vast majority (something like 90%) of the people who participated in their consultation process voted for one of the 3 proposed designs with 10% rejecting. That info live somewhere on the internet, feel free to hunt for it yourself.

I asked you a number of questions. Here they are again:

So do you support leaving all the un-used asphalt in the park? Do you like the sketchy washrooms? Do you reject the notion that skaters should have a place to skate? Do you think the kids should continue to play on a playground constructed from pressure treated lumber, a known carcinogen? Do you think all the bald patches of grass are conducive to sitting? Do you like the lack of seating?

And one more... how will the park reno further the marginalization of East Van's poor? Simply stating that the reno kicks them out doesn't cut it, because it kicks everybody out, and that's the sort of thing that happens when you renovate something. It's standard practice, not a conspiracy.

As someone who is living in the Downtown Eastside, i don't who the f#$k John or Ash or whoever talked to, but most people were EXTREMELY pissed that Oppenheimer Park was closed for over a year.  Some 30-40 people even established a protest tent camp there to highlight the community opposition to the park closure, with millions spent on gentrifying the park while people were sleeping in the f#$kin streets.

So Oppenheimer is now re-opened with some sterile, institutional 'community' space and a new plastic playground. Is that some kind of 'community' victory?

If a community doesn't have control or real input over their physical territory, then it's nothing but dictatorship .  In the late 1980's, Tomkin's Square Park in New York was the site of a community revolt against gentrification.  Along with massive policing operations, the city closed the park for well over a a year for 're-development'. 

Gentrification is not just a big word--it describes a process of displacement, dislocation, homelessness, in the interests of business and the middle-class yuppies who gain not only a neighborhood that's 'safe' for them, but also greater property value, increased services, etc., all at the expense of the poor and oppressed.

Now figure out what side of the f#$ken fence you're on.  We know where the pigs are at and why they have mobilized a relatively strong security presence around the park in the last couple of months.  Simply 'paranoia"?  You're an idiot.

Was there a consultation process to involve interested parties?  Well technically yes, but far more people that are also interested in their neighborhood were not involved.  Whose fault is that?  Most would say obviously those who chose not to get involved but it's not that simple.  Let's face facts, the Parks Board supports business.  Business is all about money.  If you represent money (property or business owner), you are more likely to be heard.  In fact the Parks Board listened to local property owners and based on that, not the "consultation process" 3 years later, decided to redevelop.  Along the way, they intentionally allowed Grandview park to deteriorate as they confessed at a board meeting recently.  Many people were not aware of the nature of the plans because of meagre and misleading announcements.  Some who had heard were reluctant to voice their opposition because they expected not to be seriously listened to, also admitted at the same board meeting.  The lack of involvement becomes understandable and one has to wonder if perhaps it as least partly the fault of the structure of our society.

In my opinion the Oppenheimer reno is a travesty.  The "awesome new user facility and washrooms"  are not open every day.  Nobody thinks "the park should be left in the state it's in", it's a question of regular maintenance which the Parks Board chose to abandon and gradual upgrade rather than complete alteration of the environment.  It's a shame what happened at an assembly a few months ago and also the confrontation yesterday with the fencing issue but the shame should be shouldered by those who cause the problem, the Parks Board and the police who are called to back them up whenever their is dissent, not the people pushed into action in order to be heard.  And to say the park was "trashed" is ridiculous, not nearly the problems caused by the annual Celebration of Light or have you seen Granville Street every Friday and Saturday night?

It's going to be an interesting few months, not quite like the Olympics or G20, but where's there anger there's confrontation and I've seen plenty of angry Grandview residents, not just the Defend Grandview crowd.

First of all, there has been so much information made available to anyone, at peoples convenience, about the reasons people in the grandview-woodlands community have huge problems with the re-development of grandview park. I suggest you take the time to learn about the issues with and struggles around the park before you take the time to make rash comments or allegations based on little to no true information. There is complete lack of community imput, consent or power over anything to do with the so called "public parks", and especially with sensitive issues surrounding complete renovations and long-term closures that are unecessary and were planned years in advance, with basically a sabotage plan of dwindling park maintenance to hold support for a positive change in the park when all that is needed is basic maintenance and more freedom for people to organize and host fun events for the whole community to come out and enjoy.

There is major greed and corruption amongst the Vancouver Parks Board and the backroom deals being made with shifty, bad repped construction comapanies that leads people to feel cheated and scammed and displaced, gentrified, victimizrd and helpless, because the parksboard is seling out our freedom to use so called public space, even though we have absolutely no rights in parks owned and operated by the parksboard.

As we saw during a community art project that brought many different people from the community out to paint the bathrooms with murals depicting the culture and diversity of people in the park. Even though there was only two weeks to go before the planned tear-down of the building, police showed up and flexed their muscles and the weight of the parksboard and forcefully stopped the murals from being started or finished halfway through the project. Even though they were set to come down in weeks, the police or parksboard couldnt stand to let un-authorized volunteers, with all their own donated supplies and maintenance materiels, fix up something the parksboard had been lacking doing. People were even harrassed while cleaning the bathrooms, because we all know the disgusting condition the parksboard leaves them in, purposefully weve now come to find out.

The Parks Board openly admitted at a public meeting that a few years ago they had decided to stop maintaining Grandview park, so that when the time came for a contract with a well known and shifty contracting company, people would be tired of the park and its problems and lacking features and agree with a complete, and unecessary renovation. The shitty design plan features a much smaller new child playground made of plastic and metal, that will be mostly in direct sunlight(plastic heats up), as opposed to the shaded oasis the previous one had. The plan also says ages 6-12. The previous playground had features for all ages of children, even adolescent youth. All that was needed was minor sanding of the wood, a new board or two, and perhaps a new paint job on the equiptment that had paint chipping or fading. There is no stage on the new plans, and the multi-use court wil be much less convenient and useful than the one previously enjoyed. the layout features less trees and plants, because the police and parksboard fear any area not openly observed. People naturally need and enjoy minor or partial privacy, not constant open, surveilled spaces. 

Also just talking with people who have a daily relationship with the park, and its issues, is a real eye-opener. Its not like this is the only struggle like it, there are so many fucking examples all over that are so similar and related to each other. Its a bigger picture than people leaving narrowminded comments seem to understand, Looking at it as an isolated and biased struggle- issue is bullshit and should be disregarded. Try working with the community instead of against it.

There is complete lack of community imput, consent or power over anything to do with the so called "public parks", and especially with sensitive issues surrounding complete renovations and long-term closures that are unecessary and were planned years in advance, with basically a sabotage plan of dwindling park maintenance to hold support for a positive change in the park when all that is needed is basic maintenance and more freedom for people to organize and host fun events for the whole community to come out and enjoy.

Really? From what I could see there was extensive community input into the redevelopment of Grandview Park. There were signs up in the park long before the consultation started. If you used the park regularly, it was pretty hard to miss them. Even with a busy schedule, there was ample opportunity for any member of the community to provide input and ideas for its renovation. Also, in the interest of the community, the Parks Board intelligently allocated maintenance funds 1 year prior, towards the renovation funds. Can this not be in the best interest of our community to provide a cost-effective renovation?

There is major greed and corruption amongst the Vancouver Parks Board and the backroom deals being made with shifty, bad repped construction comapanies that leads people to feel cheated and scammed and displaced, gentrified, victimizrd and helpless, because the parksboard is seling out our freedom to use so called public space, even though we have absolutely no rights in parks owned and operated by the parksboard.

Perhaps you know some facts that others don’t (and please share if you do!), but the process of the renovation bids were made as public and transparent as possible. If you were interested in that process you could have easily followed it. How are they ‘selling out our freedom to use public space’? The parks board is renovating the park (with extensive input from the public; see above) for use by the public!…sheeesh!

As we saw during a community art project that brought many different people from the community out to paint the bathrooms with murals depicting the culture and diversity of people in the park. Even though there was only two weeks to go before the planned tear-down of the building, police showed up and flexed their muscles and the weight of the parksboard and forcefully stopped the murals from being started or finished halfway through the project. Even though they were set to come down in weeks, the police or parksboard couldnt stand to let un-authorized volunteers, with all their own donated supplies and maintenance materiels, fix up something the parksboard had been lacking doing. People were even harrassed while cleaning the bathrooms, because we all know the disgusting condition the parksboard leaves them in, purposefully weve now come to find out.

Is this the same community art project that left graffiti and broken fences and trashed plant beds, and various items burnt and left smoldering in the middle of commercial drive? I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I pretty confident that most of the community doesn’t appreciate profanity-riddled graffiti and fire-hazards in their public space. While it may not have been your intention to have such an out of control protest, it certainly doesn’t look highly of you and the sincerity of your concerns over the health of our community and its beloved Grandview Park.

The shitty design plan features a much smaller new child playground made of plastic and metal, that will be mostly in direct sunlight(plastic heats up), as opposed to the shaded oasis the previous one had. The plan also says ages 6-12. The previous playground had features for all ages of children, even adolescent youth. All that was needed was minor sanding of the wood, a new board or two, and perhaps a new paint job on the equiptment that had paint chipping or fading. There is no stage on the new plans, and the multi-use court wil be much less convenient and useful than the one previously enjoyed. the layout features less trees and plants, because the police and parksboard fear any area not openly observed. People naturally need and enjoy minor or partial privacy, not constant open, surveilled spaces. 

Fair enough. You had ample opportunity to discuss your thoughts and ideas throughout the public input process. But….you didn’t. Sorry for that but it’s too late, you missed your chances. I would also like to add that, while you may feel that the input process came primarily from business owners and the ‘bourgeois’ of East Van (chuckle, chuckle…this is East Van not the British Properties!), there was in fact much input from the public with complete disregard of their address, occupation and employment status, wealth, property ownership, etc. Anyone with ideas could put them forth and they were listened to. If those ideas were shared by others then they were followed-up on and implemented in the renovation designs. (For example, the bike polo community who use the park regularly, voiced their opinions and were heard…they got what they wanted. Again, you could have done the same but didn’t.) These designs were developed by an architect who thankfully provided a few different options for us to decide upon. The public then democratically voted for the design they like best. One design in particular received the majority of the votes, which is the design that is currently about to be implemented in the renovation. How about that for true democracy in action?

Also just talking with people who have a daily relationship with the park, and its issues, is a real eye-opener. Its not like this is the only struggle like it, there are so many fucking examples all over that are so similar and related to each other. Its a bigger picture than people leaving narrowminded comments seem to understand, Looking at it as an isolated and biased struggle- issue is bullshit and should be disregarded. Try working with the community instead of against it.

Agreed, there is much injustice in the world and so many reasons to advocate for change. While some of these ‘struggles’ at times seem like a David versus Goliath battle, it is important for communities to unite, work together and achieve common goals. However, I think you may have missed the ‘bigger picture’. The Grandview Park renovation is not a battle worthy of your efforts. Your opposition to its renovation only serves to cost the community more and inevitably will divide the community. Build your allies so that when you need to fight for a real change, something of greater importance, you will have the support of the community behind you.

"Agreed, there is much injustice in the world and so many reasons to advocate for change. While some of these ‘struggles’ at times seem like a David versus Goliath battle, it is important for communities to unite, work together and achieve common goals. However, I think you may have missed the ‘bigger picture’. The Grandview Park renovation is not a battle worthy of your efforts. Your opposition to its renovation only serves to cost the community more and inevitably will divide the community. Build your allies so that when you need to fight for a real change, something of greater importance, you will have the support of the community behind you."

Hmm.

Myth no.1. David did not beat Goliath.

Myth No.2: Consensus among disparate community groups is possible. I see.

Myth No. 3: We can build our allies in a community which is now clearly divided into a number of irrevocably, both socio-economically and politically,opposed community factions. Anarchists don`t speak to sucky doodling state-licking sheep.

Myth No.4 The city hall Parks Board meetings were democratic since defendgrandview.wordpress,com and the poor were fairly represented in the decision making process.

Biggest Myth of all:

       That this local issue about redevelopment, a euphemism for gentrification or displacement of the lowest classes, does not reflect what is going on around the world: ie. the bigger picture of recession driven social control aimed at dominating the largest socio-economic class, the average worker and surplus labour, in order to fulfill the historically driven mandate for a `new world order`.

If the capitalists and the State versus Native Land is not the main issue, what is more important:

Bathrooms ? Types of wood for swing benches ?

Dream on Dr.j

I take it all back! Apparently this is what Vancouver plans to install in the park!!!!

http://vimeo.com/1665301

Okay, that wasn't helpful, I admit. But you guys are acting like this is the sort of thing that is part of the city's plan.